#misogyny (its misogyny)

[daigah]

We lose everytime a girl in fiction who is on the masc side and happy with it becomes very feminine as a supposed sign of maturity

[st-dionysus]

What is transandrophobia and why is it called that? By the guy who coined it and is kind of tired of seeing it defined in the opposite of what it's meant to describe.

In it's most simple definition. Transandrophobia is the way that the fear of men impacts the material reality and mental/physical health of transgender men.

Transandrophobia, is the way that the fear of men and/or masculinity effects transgender men’s ability to access queer and transgender spaces, sexual assault survivor resources, and reproductive health care.

Transandrophobia, is the way that the fear of men and/or masculinity holds back transgender men from transitioning or from presenting as masculine.

Transandrophobia, is the way the fear of men and/or masculinity results in the disowning of transgender men from previous found families and the isolation of transgender men in general.

Transandrophobia, is the way the fear of men and/or masculinity has resulted in people using their trauma as an excuse for abusing transgender men, physically, sexually, and emotionally.

Transandrophobia, is the way the fear of men has resulted in people refusing admittance to “male identified people” to certain queer events and safe spaces.

Transandrophobia, is the way that the fear of masculinity has led to people assuming that butches across the gender spectrum are inherently violent and hyper-sexual.

Transandrophobia, is the way that the fear of men and/or masculinity results in the forced feminization of transgender men in queer spaces, with the insistence that those who refuse to feminize themselves to make others more comfortable should not be allowed entrance to certain queer spaces.

Transandrophobia, is the way that the fear of men has led people to assuming that butches who were assigned female at birth, are at risk of becoming the enemy (a man) and should not be given the same amount of trust as a feminine presenting cis woman.

Transandrophobia, is when that the fear of men being in women’s spaces prevents trans men and non-binary people who present as male from accessing gynecological care, abortions, and birth control.

Transandrophobia, is when transgender men must make themselves smaller to be seen as “one of the good ones” and it is when a trans man who is loud or sexual or Black or Brown or too masculine is seen as a threat to the safety of other transgender people.

Transandrophobia, is when transgender men who speak up about how the normalized way of speaking ill about men in feminist and queer spaces has made them activity suicidal, de-transition, or prevented them from transitioning, are told to “shut up and sit down” or “good.”

Transandrophobia, is not when trans men face misogyny – that is just a trans man facing misogyny (which all trans men face, because misogyny and sexism effects everyone, not just women). However, transandrophobia is when someone says that trans men don’t face misogyny because they are men, make claims that trans men benefit from misogyny since they are men, or insist that trans men’s experiences with misogyny aren’t as valid or as bad as when a woman or non-male person faces misogyny.

Transandrophobia, is when trans men’s struggles are dismissed as being less important, because men don’t need help or men already have help or men don't face real struggles.

Transandrophobia, is when people refuse to acknowledge that the patriarchy see’s transgender men as failed women and not men, which is why transgender men do bot benefit from the patriarchy but are instead violently and systematically punished by it.

Transandrophobia is that and a whole lot more, I would need a book to describe the entirety of the issue, I have been writing a book on it for over six years and re-writing it over and over because if I say it wrong, or say it with too much emotion, or not enough emotion, or with too many numbers, or not enough numbers, and publish it without using perfect wording, trans men might not get another chance to speak up for a long ass time and we will once again have to find new words to say "Pretty please treat me like a human being and let me have access to the things I need in order to survive." and "Pretty please consider that if a large group of people from a minority are telling you they are being oppressed by these actions and fears, then maybe you should believe them or at least the material statistical evidence of that oppression, since you probably trust journals more than us describing our reality and lived experiences."

[linkemaus]

Not to be that person, but if Kamala Harris were a white man with the exact same ideals, positions, and beliefs, it wouldn’t have even been a competition. Realising that the worst thing you can apparently be is a woman, is truly devastating.

[angelsaxis]

I can understand not wanting to get pregnant or have kids but y'all do not need to take that out on pregnant people themselves

[transfaguette]

cis men love to joke about dick and balls and cum so fucking much but the moment I talk abt pussy bleach they act like they just watched someone eat a bug

[decamarks]

Using she/him pronouns, because I far prefer the succinct elegancy of “him/his” over “her/hers”. Look at that s—it's just stapled on there. Eugh. How gauche.

[lgbtlunaverse]

I've been wrestling with two beliefs I hold simultaneously but that I previously (incorrectly) thought were contradictory: that sexuality is inherently harmless, but also that specific kinds of sexual desire have been used to enact and justify grievous harm. The notion that men's sexuality is more important than women's consent, that white men's sexual access to white women must be protected from the "threat" of men of color, the idea that this specific kind of desire is so inherent to a proper society that if you have the wrong kind of sexuality you deserve to be shunned and harmed.

How can sexuality both be inherently harmless and measurably harmful?

Anyway, the answer is very easy, and part of why I feel like we should stop treating sex as something completely unlike other things and horniness as unlike all other emotions. Because I realized that, oh, right, this happens to other feelings too.

You know another feeling that is not inherently dangerous but is frequently used to enact and justify violence? Fear.

Fear is not inherently evil. Not even if it's irrational and your level of fear does not correspond to the level of danger you're actually in. In fact, irrational fears are such a common phenomenon we literally have a word for them: phobias. Which you are not evil for having. (Am I calling phobias the fear equivalnet of kinks? Kind of... I guess)

But fear and discomfort are used all the time to harm people. Let's say some random white woman is walking home late at night, and she notices a man is following her. This man might just be walking in the same direction by coincidence, but there's a small chance he's following her on purpose. It is quite natural for the mind to wander, and we frequently fear what we do not know. Discomfort or fear, in this situation, is neither inherently harmful nor unusual. However, if this white woman has been inundated her whole life with 'stranger danger' narratives and stories of women being brutally kidnapped, assaulted, and murdered by strangers. (Even though the vast majority of female victims are killed by someone they know, most often a romantic partner or family member) and she then, by the flash of a streetlight, spots that the man following her is black, and she has also been fed a narrative that black men are inherently violent and dangerous, that feeling of discomfort is enhanced and distorted until she believes she is in genuine danger and calls the police.

Statistically speaking, that guy really was just walking in the same direction, and is unlikely to be a threat. However she has now seriously endangered him, and justified it by the fact that she was scared.

A man justifying sexual assault because he couldn't help it, he was just so attracted to her. (And she led him on! She was barely dressed!) Is weaponizing his horniness in exactly the same way as people who call the authoroties on a disabled homeless person because they were "acting weird" are weaponizing their fear.

And all emotions can be weaponized this way. Anger is used to justify domestic violence ("you shouldn't have provoked me") Happiness and fun is used to jeoparidize safety (the last 30 years of olympic games have had a death toll among construction workers of over 116. The 2022 world cup alone has an officially admitted death count of 40, but the real cost is likely in the hundreds) disgust is used so often it's hard to restrict it to a single example (queerphobia, ableism, fatphobia, racism, misogyny, it's everywhere)

Sexual desire is just one way among many where the comfort of the powerful is valued above the safety of the opressed. It's not unique, but instead painfully common. And it's useful to keep this in mind not to devalue it or deny it's happening, but because we can borrow tactics and learn from similar situations rather than getting stuck on endless debates on whether porn is intrinsically evil or not, which will get us nowhere.

[mahoutoons]

honestly i wish the only way for magical girls to get respect wasn't for them to be as close to shonen as possible.

"unlike other magical girls, precure has hand to hand combat! its dbz for girls!"

"i know princess tutu's name is stupid but its actually not girly at all!"

"sailor moon isn't ACTUALLY for little girls because [insert scene of characters suffering or creepy stuff from the manga here]"

"madoka is better than other magical girls because its DARK"

like do magical girls really needs to be dbz but girly to be worthy of respect? can't they just be... magical girl shows? a show can be unapologetically girly and aimed at girls and still be worth checking out. yes, princess tutu is girly. yes, sailor moon is girly. yes, precure is girly. yes, madoka, despite being a seinen and darker, ultimately upholds the messages of the genre. and they're all awesome and deserve respect on their own merits, not as a comparison to popular shonen shows.

[tic-loud-tic-proud]

"Maybe white men wouldn't have overwhelmingly voted for Trump if it wasn't for feminists telling them they're bad all the time!!1!!" Weird how everything men do ends up being women's fault somehow

[balkanradfem]

I've managed to curate my small misogyny-free space both online and in real life, and now I'm no longer used to misogyny, it's no longer normal to me. So when I accidentally glimpse it, I'm not desensitized to it, I'm always shocked and unbelieving.

If I notice a m*n talking about a woman like she's 'just some ***' I'm immediately aware that this is in fact a demonic creature who needs to be burned. If I see anyone using a slur against women or pretending women are at fault for any of the world's issues, the hair on my neck stands up at the unbelievable amount of hatred.

Anyone implying that women should be in any way controlled, punished, forced to do anything against their will or dedicate their lives to anyone but themselves, is preposterous and villainous to me, I'm at loss that someone could even think that way about a half of the human population who are creators and administrators of life.

I know I am in a bubble, but it feels different knowing deeply in your heart that all of this is not normal, that casual or normalized hatred against women is absolutely insane, that it's sharp and painful and dehumanizing at every turn. It's insane to realize that women just have to live like this, believing all of that is normal, that I once lived like this, wondering what was wrong with me and why I couldn't just be what everyone was expecting me to.

I think still, if I can make a small space without this hate present in it, without anyone or anything implying we should be anything but free, anything but full complete human beings with absolute control over our lives, then we can strengthen and grow these spaces, and get more women in, have more women experience what life is like when hatred is removed. There is hope for women.

[trans-androgyne]

https:// drdevonprice.substack.com/p/a-massive-study-of-16000-participants

what do you think of this? (beyond just the fact that devon price is a tool, of course) i'm interested in hearing what you think of the actual figures

This was so unbelievably frustrating to read. Not about the results, to be clear! I am not surprised by them in the slightest. (The full article title is "A Massive Study of 16,000 Participants in 23 Countries Finds People Are More Prejudiced Against Trans Women Than Trans Men.") I've already talked at length about how trans women tend to get more overt vitriol than trans men. I just also believe that those sentiments are not the only measure of how badly a group is affected by queerphobia. The hypervisibility and public violence trans women experience is not inherently more oppressive than the erasure and private abuse trans men experience. The transphobia and sexism each group faces just manifests differently.

The frustrating thing is that Price understands that about other queer people too, but refuses to apply it to trans men. (If you are not aware, he has also written an article titled "Transmisandry Is Not Real.") It comes from this infuriating and honestly nonsensical belief that transphobes do in fact see trans people as our true genders more than our assigned ones--that they see trans women as queer (failed) women and trans men as queer (failed) men. I say that because he acknowledges that "when prompted, the average homophobic person tends to express less revulsion toward queerness in women than they do toward queerness in men," but also points out it isn't the case that queer women are "less oppressed or face less bigotry," it just means that it takes a different form.

He goes in some depth about the ways queer women experience a more insidious form of queerphobia, that marginalized women are "more likely to be ignored and erased," that their "queerness is seen instead as a flaw that can be 'fixed,' in order to restore a woman’s availability to men" as opposed to being driven out of society entirely. Does that sound familiar to you? This is literally exactly what happens to trans men and transmascs. But when discussing trans men's oppression compared to trans women's, he reframes the exact same things queer cis women experience as only privileges when it comes to us. Our invisibility "does benefit us," no caveats added. "It is always trans women who are presented as a looming threat...never trans men," we are "unnamed, untargeted, and not feared," he claims. This is only as true for us as it is for lesbians compared to gay men, but the difference between the more insidious oppression we face and the more overt one trans women do is not viewed the same way by Price. He believes that the misogyny trans women experience is because they are women, plain and simple, which means bigots must in fact see them as queer women, and distinguishes them from the way gay men are seen on that basis. As though gay men do not experience misogyny.

Price criticizes the fact that the researcher asks her questions by describing trans women as “someone who was considered male at birth who feels they are actually female and so dresses and lives as a woman,” and trans men as “someone who was considered female at birth who feels they are actually male and so dresses and lives as a man." He feels this primes them to think of trans women as males and trans men as females. As if they do not already see us that way! They see trans women as failing the male gender role and trans men as failing the female one! That is why our oppression takes the form it does! I am sorry to tell you this, but we will never, ever, ever get the full view of trans oppression if we cannot acknowledge that transphobes do not see trans women as women and trans men as men, but as our assigned genders in a failed, queer, third-sex way.

[prolibytherium]

Just in general I think trying to look to pre-late modern period history for validation of LGBT+ identities is an absolutely useless venture. Every single underlying human experience defined through the lens and framework of LGBT identity has always existed, but it's impossible to pin down Exactly who and what a figure might have been if they existed in this contemporary context and decided to self identify via these labels.

It's also a wildly reductive lens that flattens the complexity and variety of how sex and gender has been constructed across time in different cultures, how sexual norms have varied, etc. This is not a constructive approach to learn about history and you're never going to be able to fit historical figures neatly into little identity categories.

[yuridovewing]

always makes me uncomfortable when wc fans genuinely seem to think mapleshade is an entitled cunt for being in a halfclan relationship and wanting her children to grow up in thunderclan without issue

[ratmans-notebooks]

everyone listen to me right now. trans men & transmascs are targets of misogyny. crazy idea i know but when youre seen as a woman and/or shoved into the woman category people will be misogynistic to you. it is fuckign crazy the amount of posts ive been seeing syaing stuff like "trans men think theyre exempt from being mras cause the dr said they were a girl once" or "having a pussy doesnt mean you cant be sexist" and its like. YEAH OBVIOUSLY having a pussy doesnt mean you cant be sexist but jesus christ the presumption that trans men are unaffected by their asab or that theyve never ever experienced anything like misogyny is wilddd!! not to mention why are we still referring to transmascs by their (assumed) genitals. like its obviously vile to reduce transfems & trans women to their genitals but the same people who realize this seem to have no problem doing it to transmascs

[spitblaze]

I will say this once because I'm tired of seeing stupid discourse: anti-transmasculinity is not about being treated bad because we clock as men, it's about being treated as stupid little girls because transphobes think we've been tricked into this.

It's kind of the opposite of transmisogyny- instead of fear and revulsion, it's constant condescension, the implications that we've been whisked away from femininity by scary bad guys, that we're going to cause 'irreparable damage' because we don't know what's best for ourselves, somehow. People fearmonger a lot about the "ugliness" of transfem people, but for transmasc people that 'ugliness' is used as a warning- you'll look like THIS! You'll go BALD! Your top surgery scars will leave you MUTILATED! A lot of aesthetic concerns. Worry about our 'beauty'. Because it comes from that same stupid reactionary 'we gotta SAVE the WOMEN' shit, but this time they have to save them from getting 'stolen away', as if we're being seduced or pressured into this. As if we can't make our own decisions.

For TERFS specifically, they're losing one of their own. We're 'gender traitors', willingly aligning ourselves with the half of the population they consider unilaterally dangerous and evil.

We aren't REALLY trans, we just want the benefits that men get. You don't actually want to transition, you're just trying to avoid misogyny.

You aren't actually a man, you're just a self-loathing lesbian.

Why can't you just be a butch girl? Why can't you just be a tomboy?

Why can't you just be something that I don't think is icky?

Anyway. Like all things, it boils down to misogyny. Women stupid and gentle, dont know what best for them, evil men trick into taking man juice, must save because lady stupid and dont know what best for them (having babies and being Feminine).

Theres like. Obviously more to this but I'm just a Transmasc Rando explaining this from my perspective, and I'm not the best with words. Anyone is free to hop in and add on to this

[naggingatlas]

'thats not his role in the story!' hm i wonder what the point of it is then. hm i wonder what the dead pixel scene means. hm i wonder what wrong organ are trying to say with the context of 'awesome male friendship' and 'corporate hell where the only woman onboard is constantly under ridicule, abused or forcibly forgotten yet is the catalyst' if not this. hm i wonder how curly's physical agony being a direct parallel to anya's mental agony, stripped of voice, agency, just like her, and being forced to watch what happens while not doing jack shit, just like he used to, plays a part in this. i wonder what the moral of him being the final girl says about living with the consequences of your inaction, because of sentimentality, because of status, career and social. hm i wonder whatever the fuck this game was trying to say. hm i wonder what else is on this person's blog Oh Lord there's yaoi penice.